On Monday, Good Morning America aired their delayed ABC News/ESPN exclusive interview with transgender swimmer Lia Thomas, who switched genders and crushed actual female swimmers to win an NCAA Division I Swimming title. And, as predicted, the Disney-owned channel largely laid it on thick for Thomas.
“Breaking her silence…College swimmer Lia Thomas, who made history as the first transgender athlete to win a national title in her first sit-down interview…Her journey and what’s next,” boasted co-host George Stephanopoulos in the first of two teases. Later in the show after the interview, Stephanopoulos swooned over how Thomas is a “strong woman.”
Nightline co-host Juju Chang conducted the interview and she set the tone early by lamenting that Thomas’s “success as a trans athlete…landed her smack in the center of a heated culture war over trans rights…as people try to balance the core values of inclusion versus fairness.”
Chang added soon after that Thomas “ignit[ed] fierce debate over fairness in women’s sports” and played soundbites from transgender Republican Caitlyn Jenner and former women’s tennis star Martina Navratilova, who’ve been ardent opponents of Thomas competing against biological women.
Thomas lamented that “I knew there would be scrutiny against me if I competed as a woman…but I also don’t need anybody’s permission to be myself and to do the sport that I love.”
Chang then gave a sympathetic backstory about Thomas being trapped in a boy’s body and that depression and suicidal thoughts culminated in Thomas deciding to be a woman.
Chang said that, following years of hormone therapy, Thomas joined the women’s team and that subsequent “success in the water was met with outrage leading up to the NCAA championships.”
After a softball about how “there are some” that “look at the data and suggest that you’re enjoying a competitive advantage,” Thomas cartoonishly credited an improved mental state for dominating women’s swimming while Chang brushed aside teammates who were uncomfortable by noting they were done anonymously (without pointing out the pressure to comply) (click “expand”):
THOMAS: There’s a lot of factors that go into a race and how — how well you do, and the biggest change for me is that I’m happy and sophomore year when I had my best times competing with the men, I was miserable and so having that be lifted is incredibly relieving and allows me to put my all into training, into racing. Trans people don’t transition for athletics. We transition to be happy and authentic and our true selves. Transitioning to get an advantage is not something that ever factors into our decisions.
CHANG [TO THOMAS]: You didn’t transition to win more medals?
THOMAS: No.
CHANG: Thomas quickly became a lightning rod. 16 of her own teammates and some of their parents wrote anonymous letters arguing Thomas posed a threat to women’s sports. [TO THOMAS] The women who signed the letter anonymously said that they absolutely supported your right to transition, but they simply think it’s unfair for you to compete against cisgendered women.
In response to teammates, Thomas suggested they’re transphobic for feeling uncomfortable:
You can’t go halfway and be, like, I support trans women and trans people, but only — only to a certain point where if you support trans women as women and they’ve met all the — all the NCAA requirements I don’t know if you can really say something like that. Trans women are not a threat to women’s sports.
Chang then offered a brief but compelling and striking retort from Mayo Clinic professor Dr. Michael Joyner about how those born male have a built-in advantage, regardless of one’s use of hormones. Of course, Chang only hit Thomas with a softball (click “expand”):
CHANG: While the science on transgender athletes is new and evolving, some medical experts say the effects of higher testosterone during male puberty may never be fully erased. [TO JOYNER] What are the physical aspects that trans women may not be able to roll back with hormone therapy?
JOYNER: Obviously issues related to body size, airway size, hand size, foot size, perhaps bone density and so forth but I think the main thing is just the interactions of exercise training and skeletal muscle.
CHANG [TO JOYNER]: Are you saying that years of hormone therapy cannot put trans women in a place to compete with cisgendered women?
JOYNER: I think the evidence so far would suggest a period of two, three, four years is probably insufficient.
CHANG [TO THOMAS]: There is this concept of the legacy effects of testosterone and that that can’t ever be zero. Should that eliminate or disqualify transgender women?
THOMAS: I’m not a medical expert but there is — there’s a lot of variation among cis female athletes. There’s cis women who are very tall and very muscular and have more testosterone than another cis woman and should that then also disqualify them?
Back live after touting Thomas expressing hope for a shot at the Olympics as a woman, Chang told the show’s co-host that Thomas “absolutely” considered quitting the sport prior to identifying as a woman, adding:
And, of course, critics said if you stop swimming no one would have a problem. And her response is people are going to have a problem with me no matter what I do, so I don’t want to be forced to give up my identity as a swimmer.
This effort by Disney to destroy women’s sports with biological men was made possible thanks to the endorsement of advertisers such as Chase, Discover, and Meta (parent company of Facebook). Follow the links to see their contact information at the MRC’s Conservatives Fight Back page.
To see the relevant ABC transcript from May 31, click “expand.”
ABC’s Good Morning America
May 31, 2022
7:01 a.m. Eastern [TEASE][ON-SCREEN HEADLINE: ABC News Exclusive; Lia Thomas Breaks Her Silence]
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS: Breaking her silence.
ESPN ANNOUNCER: Lia Thomas pulling away.
STEPHANOPOULOS: College swimmer Lia Thomas, who made history as the first transgender athlete to win a national title in her first sit-down interview.
JUJU CHANG [TO LIA THOMAS] And there are some who look at the data and suggest that you’re enjoying a competitive advantage. What do you say to that?
STEPHANOPOULOS: Her journey and what’s next.
(….)
7:17 a.m. Eastern [TEASE]
[ON-SCREEN HEADLINE: ABC News; ESPN Exclusive; Lia Thomas Breaks Her Silence; Transgender College Swimmer on Winning, Criticism & Her Future]
STEPHANOPOULOS: A lot more coming up on GMA, including Juju Chang’s exclusive interview with Lia Thomas, the first openly transgender woman to win an NCAA swimming championship. She’s going to respond to the backlash and more in her first interview.
(….)
7:31 a.m. Eastern
[ON-SCREEN HEADLINE: ABC News; ESPN Exclusive; Lia Thomas Breaks Her Silence; Transgender College Swimmer on Winning, Criticism & Her Future]
STEPHANOPOULOS: But right now, an ABC News/ESPN exclusive with Lia Thomas. The elite college athlete who became the first openly transgender woman to win an NCAA swimming title. She’s speaking out in her first TV interview with Nightline’s Juju Chang. Good morning, Juju.
CHANG: Good morning to you, George. You know, Lia Thomas says there are two major aspects of her identity, being an elite swimmer and being trans. And yet, it’s her success as a trans athlete that landed her smack in the center of a heated culture war over trans rights and she’s breaking her silence for the first time as people try to balance the core values of inclusion versus fairness. She’s the swimmer who created shock waves across the country. 23-year-old Lia Thomas.
ESPN ANNOUNCER: Lia Thomas pulling away.
CHANG: The UPenn swimmer making history as the first known transgender athlete to win Division I title, but her athletic achievements on the women’s swim team igniting fierce debate over fairness in women’s sports.
CAITLYN JENNER [on FNC’s Hannity]: It is just not fair.
MARTINA NAVRATILOVA: When it comes to competition, it’s just not a fair fight.
CHANG: Throughout the controversy, Thomas has largely remained quiet until now.
LIA THOMAS: I knew there would be scrutiny against me if I competed as a woman. I was prepared for that, but I also don’t need anybody’s permission to be myself and to do the sport that I love.
CHANG: Assigned male at birth, Thomas grew up in Austin, Texas, where she says she fell in love with swimming when she was just four, but as she grew, she says she felt increasingly disconnected to her body.
THOMAS: I didn’t feel like I was a boy. I was like, this isn’t — this isn’t me. This isn’t who I am.
CHANG: Thomas earned a spot at her Ivy League dream school, UPenn on the men’s team but by her sophomore year, her gender dysphoria left her depressed and suicidal.
THOMAS: I was barely going to classes. I could barely get out of bed and I said I can’t live like this anymore and I want to be able to do things I enjoy.
CHANG [TO THOMAS]: Even if it might cost me my swimming career.
THOMAS: Yeah, that’s part of what kept me from transitioning for so long is I wasn’t sure if I could continue swimming and doing the sport I love.
CHANG: Thomas began HRT, hormone replacement therapy in May of her sophomore year 2019.
THOMAS: The mental and emotional changes actually happened very quickly. I was feeling a lot better mentally. I was less depressed and I lost muscle mass and I became a lot weaker and a lot — lot slower in the water.
CHANG: After following NCAA guidelines of a year of hormone therapy to change gender categories, Thomas started her senior year on the women’s team, but her success in the water was met with outrage leading up to the NCAA championships. Her critics say she jumped in rankings between the men’s and women’s team. [TO THOMAS] There are some look at the data and suggest that you’re enjoying a competitive advantage. What do you say to that?
THOMAS: There’s a lot of factors that go into a race and how — how well you do, and the biggest change for me is that I’m happy and sophomore year when I had my best times competing with the men, I was miserable and so having that be lifted is incredibly relieving and allows me to put my all into training, into racing. Trans people don’t transition for athletics. We transition to be happy and authentic and our true selves. Transitioning to get an advantage is not something that ever factors into our decisions.
CHANG [TO THOMAS]: You didn’t transition to win more medals?
THOMAS: No.
CHANG: Thomas quickly became a lightning rod. 16 of her own teammates and some of their parents wrote anonymous letters arguing Thomas posed a threat to women’s sports. [TO THOMAS] The women who signed the letter anonymously said that they absolutely supported your right to transition, but they simply think it’s unfair for you to compete against cisgendered women.
THOMAS: You can’t go halfway and be, like, I support trans women and trans people, but only — only to a certain point where if you support trans women as women and they’ve met all the — all the NCAA requirements I don’t know if you can really say something like that. Trans women are not a threat to women’s sports.
CHANG: While the science on transgender athletes is new and evolving, some medical experts say the effects of higher testosterone during male puberty may never be fully erased. [TO JOYNER] What are the physical aspects that trans women may not be able to roll back with hormone therapy?
MAYO CLINIC PROFESSOR DR. MICHAEL JOYNER: Obviously issues related to body size, airway size, hand size, foot size, perhaps bone density and so forth but I think the main thing is just the interactions of exercise training and skeletal muscle.
CHANG [TO JOYNER]: Are you saying that years of hormone therapy cannot put trans women in a place to compete with cisgendered women?
JOYNER: I think the evidence so far would suggest a period of two, three, four years is probably insufficient.
CHANG [TO THOMAS]: There is this concept of the legacy effects of testosterone and that that can’t ever be zero. Should that eliminate or disqualify transgender women?
THOMAS: I’m not a medical expert but there is — there’s a lot of variation among cis female athletes. There’s cis women who are very tall and very muscular and have more testosterone than another cis woman and should that then also disqualify them?
CHANG: In January, the NCAA updated its transgender athlete eligibility guidelines saying each sport’s governing body could make their own rules, later clarifying it wouldn’t impose the new rules mid-season, clearing the way for Thomas to compete at the NCAAs.
THOMAS: It was just an incredible experience to able to fulfill that personal goal and be at that meet as well as competing as my authentic self was just such an amazing experience to have these — these things that I’ve been working towards for so long all — all come together.
CHANG [TO THOMAS]: Are there Olympics in your future?
THOMAS: It’s been a goal of mine to swim at Olympic trials for a very long time and I would love to see that through.
CHANG: Now her college swimming career is over. Lia just graduated from UPenn and is getting ready for law school, perhaps a future career as a civil rights lawyer advocates for trans rights, George.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And, Juju, did Lia ever think about quitting?
CHANG: Absolutely. She said that she was so depressed when she transitioned, she thought she gave it up even if it cost her swimming career. And, of course, critics said if you stop swimming no one would have a problem. And her response is people are going to have a problem with me no matter what I do, so I don’t want to be forced to give up my identity as a swimmer. George.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Strong woman. You can see more of Juju’s interview today on ESPN, tonight on Nightline.